My standard line with them upon initially talking with them has been "Listen man. We have been friends for a long time. If you are a 'Down Low Brother' like Bishop Long - tell me now and I won't hold it against you". :-/
The disposition of my friends is so predictable. I knew how the conversation was going to go in advance.
Friend #1: Hardcore Progressive Democrat, Corporate-type, Church Member
We did the "Why boys(?) when there are so many fine women in that church if you are going to do some dirt" line.
I interjected that this was an organizational failure. This is like a sole proprietorship that has grown into a major corporation and the corporate board fails at its duties to protect the entity against its founder's actions. They showed too much deference when they should have considered the fallout to their entire entity if this ONE MAN were to show that he is a man rather than a profit without sin. The church should have placed an institutional framework around the pastor - never allowing him unfettered access to ANY individual in which any question of such sexual impropriety could take place. If these allegations are true - the church failed to keep such an integral party of its organization "away from himself" and his proclivities.
He agreed with my assessment.
Friend #2: Anti-Republican/Conservative - Democrat
George W Bush came to Coretta Scott King's funeral that was held at the New Birth Church sanctuary. Bush looked around and saw all that BLACK PEOPLE had built up and was in disbelief that we were capable of such a feat. He then realized that all of this is TAX FREE because it is a church.
Bush realized that he must bring this Black man down because he is too powerful.
As he was talking I was thinking to myself - THIS is a Black man who is educated and has a master's degree talking right now.
I asked him: "So are you saying that the FBI planted these young Black males in Long's presence so he could be snared? Why didn't Obama and Holder stop the operation if this is so?"
His answer - "You know what I'm talking about. They have been trying to take out Black men with too much power for a long time. You keep fooling yourself".
I asked him: "So how do you figure THEY are going to take out Obama - the most powerful man in the country and the world?"
His answer - "Obama and his family are descent people. He is intelligent enough not to get trapped up in anything like that. He would never be able to survive what Bill Clinton got away with. They are not going to let any Black man off of the hook like that".
(I should have saw the caller-id and let it go to voice mail)
Friend #3: Self-Admitted Communist/ Anti-Jewish / Anti- Christian
"I told you about that comic book called the bible. Here you are praying to Jesus and that man (Long) is going to receive $10 from everybody this Sunday who is going to go and hear him lie about what he did.
Tell me where there has ever been peace where there is Christianity? That White man gave you that religion as a means of controlling you.
All the while that Jew is sitting back orchestrating all of this and ya'll Negroes swear you got control of yourselves. Don't nothing happen to you all without some Jew somewhere making it happen."
Me - trying to get the conversation back on track to the points relevant to Bishop Long - "This was a problem with the church governance. They should never have allowed him to be alone with anyone on official church business. They should have assigned a set of policies to make sure this never happened".
My friend: "You didn't hear a word I said"
Me: "YES I DID!! What did you say that has relevance to the situation at hand?"
My friend: "That man got Black people to give them all of that money to build up that mega church and he was preaching from a book that does not connect to our spiritually as Black people. This ain't our natural religion man. It was stolen from us. That devil had us enslaved and he stole our culture away"
(At that time I was thinking about my wife's recent trip to Africa and how she said that she would never go back to Nigeria. An armed checkpoint guard pointed a gun toward her car and it was aimed right at her head - rattling her. I could not bear to get into it with my friend. His vision of the "mystical magical Africa does not exist and NEVER DID". )
I have come to the conclusion that their is no MAGIC in this world.
There is a Christian religion that has a set of rules by which to live by.
These rules and this philosophy has endured for more than 2000 years, this DESPITE the devilment of MAN, who imparted the name upon himself but choose to do all sorts of things that were contrary to these standards.
A religion or other set of rules also require ENFORCEMENT. A group of conscious people who know that a society that does not have such rules will collapse. That an institution that fails to uphold its standards with integrity will have those who were predisposed to "hate upon them" will be provided with the ammo to prove their suspicions right.
PERFECTION on this Earth is not possible.
It must be MANAGED toward.
No one man can ever be allowed to be more important than the integrity of the whole.
Sadly too many people get their narrow agenda item out of the inspection of the entity in question.
8 comments:
Quote: "These rules and this philosophy has endured for more than 2000 years, this DESPITE the devilment of MAN, who imparted the name upon himself but choose to do all sorts of things that were contrary to these standards."
There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death. Proverbs 16:25
People ruin their lives by their own foolishness and then are angry at the LORD. Proverbs 19:3
But these people mock and curse the things they do not understand. Like animals, they do whatever their instincts tell them, and they bring about their own destruction. Jud 1:10
These people are grumblers and complainers, doing whatever evil they feel like. They are loudmouthed braggarts, and they flatter others to get favors in return. But you, my dear friends, must remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ told you, that in the last times there would be scoffers whose purpose in life is to enjoy themselves in every evil way imaginable. Jud 1:16 -18
Nikki my 2cent cont.
In full disclosure I am not a fan nor favor Ed Long and his teachings, but that does not allow me to conclude he’s a sodomite on accusations alone.
I have a few points to make here:
1. The liberal bias news media who is clearly trying to help push (nudge & wink) the “Gay Special Interest Groups”– single issue agenda on society, which is seemingly working.
i. Every time the accusations are made against Ed Long his stance against sodomy is mentioned, like its part of his title or something.
ii. Ed Long’s a c c u s a t I o n s overshadowed a (single person) Florida judge overturning the will of the majority’s, bi-partisan, multi-racial, unified decision: which was, that traditional relationships (GOD approved) of Father and Mother homes work best for kids. Another example of “I the judge vs. We the People” with the former being the victor.
iii. This judge’s decision should be especially alarming to Black folks, as a vast majority of our kids are in the system and could fall victim to, the great experiment of brain washing our children into believing that homosexuality is a normal, healthy alternative, when it’s certainly NOT.
*I’m aware our children should NOT be in the system in the 1st place, and our community is broken, yet we are NOT destroyed. However, this does NOT negate the fact that we (especially tax payers) should have some extreme concerns, and loudly voice these concerns with sodomy placements. My suspicion is that their goal is to raise as many gay and/or gay friendly Black children as possible and use them to as tools to help eradicate what they see as the rampant “homophobia” that exists in the Black community.
Nikki tbc.
2. WHERE’S IS THE EVIDENCE, PROOF, DOCUMENTATION, reporting on “knowledge” of evidence?
i. for example: CNN proudly faux-fact checked Christine O’Donnell’s campaign finance receipts, played Blago tapes, and MONICA LEWINSKY had DNA.
*Where’s the obscene text messages, homo language filled emails, skin showing obscene pic’s, cell phone pic of Ed Long asleep next to a “legal age alleged victim of consent”, radio shack got cell and landline voice recorders for under $30bucks, was some DNA saved from all them serial-reported accusations of oral fornication??? It’s too easy in this day and age of technology to have some proof; these were NOT coerced children, but legal age sodomites, some DLB’s, one who’s a thief that’s actually charged with stealing from Ed Long.
ii. Ed Long might in fact be a DLB sodomite, I wouldn’t blink if proof surfaced. However, we need some evidence besides pictures of Ed Long in too-young-for-him tight shirts, workout suits, or effeminate attire. It doesn’t play well in this case bc he’s known to wear that attire straight from the pulpit, so it ain’t a secret he has terrible, immodest taste in clothes. At minimum we need some slight evidence, besides Ed Long preaches against homosexual situations - so is that proof he’s “gay too”? He should preach against it, that’s his job, and one of the very FEW biblical truths he actually gets correct.
*This seems like another liberal political agenda in conjunction with “gay special interest groups” to nudge and wink us into accepting what they assert is the normality of homosexuality with subliminal and mild suggestion.
iii. Where’s the proof that Ed Long sent those pic’s directly from his phone to the young sodomite? Could they have been posted on fb or somewhere? Besides that’s still slim evidence of active sodomy, bc ppl send/post inappropriate pics all the time. Nikki tbc.
3. The most important point of all. I’m an unashamed follower of Jesus Christ (Romans 1:16). A biblical case must be made with NO apologies, for other believers. I pray this message is delivered in meekness, yet BOLD with truth, and received with godly minds in the spirit of discernment. For the lukewarm; may HE pierce your hearts and bring you to obedience (Milk to Meat)!
i. Do they understand JESUS is the HEAD, ROCK, CHIEF SHEPHARD not the pastor/bishop/preacher? I dare someone say “touch not my anointed” in regards to WRITTEN/VERBAL rebuke/correction of a false preacher!?!
Jhn 10:11 - I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Jhn 10:14 - I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.
1Pe 5:4 - And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
Eph 4:15 - But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:
ii. Shouldn’t we reject the False Prophets of Prosperity that "tickle" the ears of the goats for filthy lucre? These Health and Wealth Prosperity Preacher/Pimps are telling you that GOD wants you to be rich, so you can "sow the seed" of lottery for a blessing for their ultimate personal gain.
1Pe 5:2 - Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight [thereof], not by constraint, but willingly; NOT FOR FILTHY LUCRE, but of a ready mind;
Tts 1:7 - For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, NOT GIVEN TO FILTHY LUCRE;
1Ti 3:3 - Not given to wine, no striker, NOT GREEDY OF FILTHY LUCRE; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
iii. Bishop Eddie Long is only one man “lording over God's heritage”. Does the Bible speak of leader(S) in the church or one man? The bible clearly supports plurality of leadership, NOT protestant mini POPES! 1Peter 5:1-6
Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight [thereof], not by constraint, but willingly; NOT FOR FILTHY LUCRE, but of a ready mind; NEITHER AS BEING LORDS OVER [GOD'S] HERITAGE, but being ensamples to the flock. 1Pe 5:2-3
iv. Every Christian is gifted and a vital parts of the church with Jesus as the head of the church not the pastor, the elected board members, or any other protestant Popes. Certainly NOT prosperity pimps like Bishop Eddie Long! 1 Corinthians 12:1-30
v. According to 1Ti 3 Bishop Long has fallen into the snare of the devil already, regardless whether or not he’s a sodomite his organization should FAIL, and he must REPENT!
1Ti 3:2 - A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 - Not given to wine, no striker, NOT GREEDY OF FILTHY LUCRE; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 - One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 - (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 - Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 - Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. - Nikki
Nikki:
Roll the clock back to 2 weeks ago and I was a defender of Eddie Longs community service. In as much as certain people attack their public figures for not doing enough for the community - New Birth per the leadership of Long had made great strides in the community.
Here is where I am at right now.
That mega complex that is a full service church was not PAID FOR BY EDDIE LONG. IF there was a properly run organization there - there is a 'deep bench' from which to draw from.
I think that the ENTITY should be valued more than the MAN.
At minimum relieve him of his duties until all of this mess is worked out.
Our people apparently have two modes:
* Throw a person overboard
* DEFEND the indefensible.
We need to balance the reputation of a strong community leader with the QUESTION - "Did these BLACK MALES who were looking for guidance per their interactions with this ministry GET EXPLOITED?"
This is an issue of protective sanctuary.
If we prove that we are as blind and defensive as the people that we have long demanded justice from - this would be truly a shame.
This needs to be NO LONGER about "Bishop Eddie Long" and now about the INTEGRITY OF NEW BIRTH MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH - and entity that has 22,000 people linked to it.
Quote: "I think that the ENTITY should be valued more than the MAN."
C.F. I "mainly" agree with you on this issue, especially the above quote. I'm sort of a Bible thumper and love the scripture and I made that exact point with scripture. GOD has given HIS instruction reference 1Cr 12 which says The Body (entity) as a whole (plurality leadership) vs. the Mini Popes. I think where we differ is on your support for these institutions and my despise for false prophets, false churches, and false gospel which Health and Wealth Prosperity Preaching clearly is (but that's not the issue here). I take issue regardless of his accused sodomy charge, he still must REPENT. His church is full of goats who feed on trash, so I don't expect loss of support for him, and certainly don't see him stepping down anytime soon (if ever). Reluctantly, in their defense I've seen no evidence that he's guilty, so without proof what could they conclude. - Nikki
My struggle on the issue is more at the "human" level and not the religious plane.
When I hear certain comedians talk about how stupid the American voter is - one part of my wants to deny it while the other part understands that there is some truth to this.
People build coalitions and then defend what they have built up - sometimes justifiably other times in a "Jim Jones" type manner which proves them to be a cult.
I think that the church as an institution has the POTENTIAL of being a transformative vehicle in a person's life. I see churches that are "full service" - they are centered upon the word and then invest in recreational facilities and other communal enterprises that allow the people to express for themselves what some communities protest to the government for.
When it comes to size - I can understand your concerns. I used to attend New Birth more than 15 years ago back when I was single. Unfortunately there was no chance of you having a personal relationship with the pastor. At the same time there was an abundance of auxiliary organizations that worked to keep people involved with the church community.
I go to a moderately sized church now. The pastor knows my name. This is the environment that I prefer.
I know some people who stay at the large churches while others have passed through and disconnected because they saw some things that they did not like.
At the end of it all it is a personal relationship with Christ that matters the most.
Quote: "My struggle on the issue is more at the "human" level and not the religious plane."
-My perspective of this issue is neither "human" level or religious plane, it's Biblical.
-Quite frankly it's not always a laughing matter how foolish the American Voter is.
-We agree in some areas, but disagree in more Biblical areas, I will not continue this form of dialog in respect of political forum. -Nikki
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